Crossbeat, March 1995

 By Atsushi Sasaki
Translated by Tutu Fujimoto

Jeff Buckley, who's been deified at the same time as his debut because of the stoic impression you get from his album’s cover photo or the "Miracle Voice" catchphrase issued by a record company, was a slender built, naive young man who looked younger than the actual age of 27. The way of his frank speech, sometimes child-like, is a little different from the surreal atmosphere of his singing.  The real Jeff stands slightly in a place far from the image that the world has about him...he looked that way to me.

******

I wanted to interview you after seeing the concert if possible...

Yeah, right 

First of all, could you tell me the members of the current band?

Mick Grondahl.., oh, (looking at the material on the desk) you have the list.

You mean, it's the same as the members of the album?

Yeah, the same members.  Michael Tighe and Matt Johnson. Always these members.  I don’t feel like playing with others.

A show playing with four members, right?

Yes.

I heard you don’t have set lists, is it same in Japan?

Yeah.

Is it better without set list for you?

Hmm...there’s no meaning even if I prepared it because the reactions are different by the audience. For example, you don't always feel the usual energy in your first place, you don’t know what kind of songs the audience would enjoy as well. So we play the song that appeared next in my head naturally after one song finished...like that. So, it’s like when a DJ plays their records at a party.

You mean, it depends alot on the reaction of the audience?

Right. And of course, it also depends on the energy or feelings on the band side. Anyway, it’s better to get ready for what or when we play the songs. It’s going to be better in some cases. It’s going to fall straight down sometimes. (lol) But...there's something we've got, a sort of habit, and there’re songs we want to play. So, it feels like I'm going to change it according to the time.

In other words, I think it's a close relationship with the members of the band.

Yeah, I love them. Of course. The natural chemistry of this band is sewn up very tight, we’ve all built each other up. It’s exactly what I wanted.

I think the live show is an important part of your music.

That’s right.

There are two characteristics of the situation about the live show. First of all, it's hard to redo, and the audience is right in front of you.

Yeah, it creates a unique situation that is different from recording an album or giving live shows to radio or television. The music originally comes from there, and it always goes back there. If you can't do that, you can't do anything else.

Could you tell me a little more about it?  Especially in your case, I think the recording and the live performance have completely different values.

Yeah. On the one hand, it's like drawing a picture. That's the studio matter. On the other hand, it's like tap dancing or a 100-yard race. (imitating tap dance)

How do you prepare for that tap dance?

I just have to do this. Many times, again and again. Open your mind and relax as much as possible...Even if you've got a fuzzy head by drugs or too much alcohol around, that moment would be still okay. Only that moment. It's becoming difficult to live for the moment in this world now. Everyone is thinking about the past and the future, worrying about both, and trying to do something about both, but now is the time when it's really important. What we're actually living is “now”, the moment. I guess you remember about it only when you are having sex, when you are having a fight, or when you are creating art. And if you are a woman, when you give birth to a baby. Everything hangs on the moment, no doubt about it. I think it needs those moments for human beings. I'm determined to build a better live performance and make it fruitful as one part of myself.

The recording is to freeze the moment, right?

CD? Yes. The moment is frozen and comes back to life again and again. Even John Cage said he didn't know whether it was such a great idea to record music or not. I love records. But I can agree what he said. I don’t agree with the opinion that someone shouldn't do recording. Because I love records. Magnetic tape is a canvas, and you choose your favorite paint and keep your color on it, then you mix-down and put your finished-work in a black box, your soul pops into the room...it's like that. That itself is fabulous. But recording and live shows are completely different experiences. There is no overdubbing in the live show, and the energy and sound are all only right then. It's hard to compare with anything else. And, having both the strength to perform such a tough job and play well, it’s also hard to compare. That's the point. Well, I won’t say we’re doing good all the time. (lol)

The new single also includes live takes. They're each about 15 minutes long.

Does it? “Mojo Pin” and “Wetlands”?...Oh, “Kangaroo”. That’s right.

Both of them are great performances, and I feel as if you’re committed to the flow of sound.

Thank you. It's great to hear by car. Start the engine and drive for about 15 minutes while listening to Kangaroo. Screeeeeech (sound of a brake)!!!! (lol). I'm not trying to write a song for 15 minutes however, “Mojo Pin” has an intro and then the main story, so it's actually two songs in one, “Kangaroo” has happened to come like that. That’s the second take out of three takes. That’s recorded live in a Sony studio. Well, I like to write both short and long songs. Time length doesn't matter to music, it doesn't matter where you start and where you end. I get to start anyway. It's just like I'm on the train.  Get on, and get off. You may want to ride for 3 minutes, or you may want to ride for 26 minutes. I don’t care about that. As long as there's a stream and you can feel good energy. That's all right if you don't lose the flow or the excitement.

Did you write the song that way from the beginning?

Yes. In short, I’m not a self-controlled person at all, I don’t recognize myself what I’m doing.

Why don't you make a live album with only one song from start to finish someday? It’s like one piece of music spread out variously, and the phrases of another song in and out of it.

If you're going to do that, you have to be a super genius.  At this stage, it will be impossible until around 80 years old I guess (lol). Yeah I think it could be, but it’s impossible as long as you are a genius like God. No drug will help, I guess. Because I don't want to do it like The Greatful Dead if I do, and I want to create 74 minutes of non-stop music that really attracts me and that I don't want to cut along the way.  If it isn’t like that, it’s going to be rubbish.

By the way, you seem to be close to Gary Lucas, the former Captain Beefheart Band. How did you get to know each other?

I happened to be with him at a gig in Brooklyn. I knew him and Beefheart, so I talked with him and went to his house. He said he had an idea for a song, so we put it together, then we made a project and had gigs about two times together.

You mean you were a fan of Beafheart, right?

Yeah, since my high school days. I was totally a Zappa-head. That is, until around 16 years old? I got “Bongo Fury” at that time, then got into Beafheart. Since then, I much preferred him to Zappa. I don’t mean I quit being a Zappa fan though. It’s just, “Oh man, Beefheart is fabulous“, like that. But it wasn’t so popular at all in my high school back then, everyone was into Depeche Mode or Spandau Ballet and so on. Interestingly enough, it's now turned around and those people changed their attitude as if they liked it for a long time. Stop kidding, baby. I’ve watched it. I was there the time when you called me dork. It makes me laugh. I still remember, I brought that stuff to high school and played them on the stereo...but everyone at that time gathered to A Flock Of Seagulls, Wall Of Voodoo, The Stray Cats...or "I know this music is true! (“True” by Spandau Ballet) Yeah, when I brought Zappa or Beefheart, they said to me like “that’s so lame!”. How about that now? They're all classic rocky.

In your case, how did you know the music like Beefheart?

I've been quite a bit contrary ever since. I'm a vinyl geek. I loved those that nobody had. And those albums gave me happiness that other pop records didn't have. The Smiths or Siouxsie And The Banshees were good and I still like them though. I think they’re still great and have their records...but how can I say, perhaps it’s one part of my rebellious stage and also an intuitive thing that I felt like "This guy is fabulous. The lyrics are amazing."

You seem to have been a great record buff, some people listen to everything and make their music that have everything. But in your case, you have a steadfast style.

I've learned myself the first thing from the experience of perfect hero worshipers...when you’re into with it much deeper, for example, The Birthday Party, Miles Davis, The Sex Pistols, or The Smiths, the more you’re into them, the more things that are given from them. Or The Velvet Underground is fine, anyway, it turns out there is no way to imitate someone who is not yourself. But I love them after all. So the only thing you can do is to channelize with the person you're longing for naturally by being yourself. There's a lot of self-criticism, but that's the only way. Everybody did it, Patti Smith as well. Every artist begins with imitation. Some people get out of it and others don't get out of it. Only those who can get out of it and have a completely unique eccentricity will give you a different experience. For example, Tom Waits.  He is so unique, isn’t he?  How can I say...(lol), Tom Waits is nothing but Tom Waits. That's it. To be honest with the people you love, you have to be yourself. In the future, I want to establish more of what this is about my style. By all means. I haven't gotten that far yet.

*****

I think it’s a sincere statement. In fact, there are not many artists who can survive the temptation of imitation and self-repeat. And you have to know others to establish yourself especially. Jeff seemed to be listening to so much music, they certainly become the flesh of his music, even though they are not directly reflected in his music. Even during the interview, tapes of an Egyptian singer were running. I asked him “Do you like ethnic music?”, the answer was “Garage bands are also the ethnic music of white people.”

*****

By the way, you participated in The Jazz Passengers’ album “In Love”. Do you have a close interaction with the people of Knitting Factory?

No, no. I wasn't a member of that scene. I know a few people, that’s it. I know Marc Ribot or Elliot Sharp, but not so close. Roy (Nathanson, a leader of The Jazz Passengers) is more close. But I’m not in that scene. Roy and I are going to play together on Piaf’s album by Hal Willner. That is what I’ve always wanted to do, Roy is going to be a music director. Ah yes, I had a show with The Jazz Passengers. Debbie Harry was there, John Cale also...and one more, a beautiful Puerto Rican lady (lol), and Mavis Staples sang, too. Debbie Harry sang her own song, that was fabulous! She is fantastic. She is a Diva. I was so nervous, but I was honored.

You often join the projects of other people.

Yes. They all end on a daily basis, but it's fun. There’s a lot to learn, it’s fun to write songs with friends together as well.

You do cover songs of Edith Piaf, Van Morrison, Leonard Cohen, Hank Williams so far.

Bad Brains “I Against Thy”, The Smiths “The Boy with the Thorn in His Side”, MC5 “Kick Out The Jams”, Ride “In A Different Place”... I've done a lot of other songs, but that's what I can remember now. And I did The Creatures “Killing Time”.

Is there anything common that you want to sing in those songs?

It’s all just fun to listen to. And it's a song that you can feel real soul. It's hard to explain in words the background behind doing cover songs like Leonard Cohen's music. Actually I've done only one song by Leonard Cohen. I’ve done many of Dylan’s though. A few of Piaf’s, quite a lot of Nina Simone. I’ve done Zeppelin, too. I’m not going to be Van Morrison. It's a different world from me. To tell the truth, my friend dreamed that I was singing "The Way Young Lovers Do" with him, it's all out of that without much thought. I felt that song settled for me when I played at the cafe, I'm still playing the same way I did then. I'm not the kind of artist like Morrison, however, I like the feeling when I play that song, so I'm going to wear the fur of that song to get that feeling.

Is there something different from the song you wrote yourself?

Yes. It’s a simple curiosity about what chemical reactions will take place, for example, “Sweet Thing” or “I Woke Up In A Strange Place”, “The Last Goodbye”, “Mojo Pin”. At that time, I didn't think I was going to sign a contract. I wanted to start with a band first, and then get a contract. But everything started from the other side. I can’t help it because that’s how it goes. (lol)

Are you a fan of Leonard Cohen?

Leonard is fabulous. What's great about him, he is still...still...he is still at the height of his power, even though he is old enough for when almost all the artists are exhausted and disappear or die. He’s been still sending songs that won't waste a second. That's the good point. Even Johnny Lydon can be any good now, huh? I wish he'd be like Leonard Cohen. It's wrong to think that you can rock only when you're young. Because those young people I see on TV are not attractive to me. In short, this industry discriminates too much by age. They’re much too obsessed with how old the person is. Age has nothing to do with art. Picasso also did my favorite work at the age of 60. I'm not interested in reflecting my life only up to the age of 30. I want to know what kind of shocks and nightmares and love and life and sex and drugs and dreams are given to my life. It's a destiny to die one day. It's like...we're going to be made to disappear.

Can you imagine yourself being the age of 60?

No. I can't imagine a year from now.I don't even think about it. The future is like...a white blank TV screen.

Can you rewind that TV screen back to the time you start singing?

That's when I was a kid.

I heard you've never taken formal lessons.

Yeah. I've taken it once, it’s like $60 for 30 minutes, and the teacher, they leaned over the piano and doing like “Ahhh!”. I thought I didn’t want to be like that when I saw them, then I quit. So, yes, my songs are almost instinctive. But I want to find a teacher in the future. Because it would be nice if there’s someone to tell me something I don’t know. Provided that it must be a really excellent person with whom I can feel sympathy.  

Do you currently do anything special to keep your voice by yourself?

Nah. To tell the truth, I've been doing all the bad things for my voice lately.

For example?

Well, I promised to start smoking in the New Year, but it got worse recently. In any cases, smoking cigarettes is addictive. Now I know why everybody got addicted to nicotine. I just wanted to know what smoking was like (lol). Now I’m smoking one after another.

When did you come to realize that you could sing and what was the reason?

I’m not sure if my voice is good or not. But about singing, as long as I remember, I've been singing the whole time. For example, if I sang a song listening to the radio, I was able to harmonize nicely. I’ve been aware of that since I was a little child. But I don’t know what my voice is. Give me a few more years for the answer.

Can you explain in words what “singing” means to you?

It’s a way to speak my mind, what’s more, in a room with no guards or being watched. But my room was a little guarded. Yeah, I mean it’s to speak my mind.

Your recording career has just started, but you already have a short but bright career of it.

I'm surprised myself.

What’s your next plan to brush up on your music and your career also?

Just continuing. The success of this album is certainly a wonderful thing. But it's not that big a thing. I’m not sure but is it big in Japan? Am I big!? Big as same as Elvis? (lol)

I don't think you've got any real feeling because you haven't seen the audience in Tokyo yet.

I take this success rather calmly. Real success is what you see in your work, it’s up to how wonderfully you can create your work. It doesn't matter whether it's big sales or not. Because there’re some of those people who seem to forge things around that and they always hit the big sales. I didn’t mean that I don’t care about it, but I don’t think that you love art, or you’re loved by art, just because you got the big sales.

Do you start thinking about your next album?

I’m thinking about it all the time.

Can we listen to it soon?

I want to release it as soon as possible. It’s in the process of struggling and assembling in my head so far, but the ideas come up all year round. I'm making up my mind to release it this year. That’s only my wish though (lol).

******
  I went to Jeff's live show days after the interview. The first thing that surprised me was that he was more popular like a “Singing Idol“ than I expected. Shrill voices were buzzing from all over the hall. The audience is very young. Leonard Cohen’s Hallelujah from Grace was more responsive than when he sang his father's song, it shows what they want is Jeff Buckley, not Tim Buckley's son.
  As he said, his live show was as if it were a living thing, as the song went on, it steadily increased its tension and reached its peak in encore. To tell the truth, I had some points about him that underrated a little bit at first, however, I want to write down here that Jeff’s vocalization has both robustness and delicacy and was worth a “fantabulous”. His beautiful falsetto on the intro of “Mojo Pin” reflects in the air inside Shinjuku Liquid Room.

  We don't know what kind of road Jeff Buckley will be going to take. The only thing I can say is that no matter how much time goes by, he will just continue singing on...where, nobody knows...on the stage in front of the big audience, or in a small club, or on the street.